ze_Pirates_Port_Royal_v5_2. Which weapon to use?

I went full autism and took the weapon data from here (as outdated as it might be) as well as the damage done by the items/nades from the map and made this neat table. M0qVwJP.png1279×309 Keep in mind that most bosses’ health not only scale with player count but also have a defined base health, so single player tests cant really be used to extrapolate data.

I trust in my data, it was realised on v5_2, problably your is outdated or wrong (by my prespective). Just by looking at the damage done after 2 minutes i can tell it’s wrong. In my data negev dealt all the times x3 dmg as the bizon does and u’re showing that negev and bizon deal almost the same dmg in the whole fight. That’s probably because the mapper changed some setting on the boss. I think it’s because he added a front wall on Krakken that mitigates low penetration weapons dmg, you can see on the post i added recently that if you evade the wall bizon deals tons of dmg, and if you don’t evade the front wall you don’t do shit dmg.

Also i want to say that my data was realised when i didn’t know about the front wall of Krakken, that means that probably some tries are not accurate. Also i want to mention that because i made 10 tries of each weapon the data isn’t that bad at all.

In the boss hp your argument is completely wrong. It doesn’t matter if Krakken has 1 trillion Hp or 1000 Hp, i don’t even care about that; the only thing i care is that the boss has the same hp in all the tries, that means that the Hp is STABLE on all the tries and it allows me to compare the dmg done to the Krakken, i don’t want to know the boss hp, i want to compare which weapon is the most effective during the whole battle in terms of dmg done and mobility during the battle.

The table I provided shows the damage done under ideal conditions, the data might be outdated, but you can’t say it is wrong. For all the reasons you addressed in the original post, it is convenient to know which weapons deal the most damage per time period because there’s always going to be people dying at the first vortex/wave, and those ones should be using a weapon with high burst damage instead of a weapon that deals a reliable amount of damage after the time’s up. That’s also one reason you’d want to know about the ‘offset’ linear behaviour of the hp calculation: the amount of damage a each player has to deal before their net hp contribution becomes negative follows an inverse law. Making sure that a bigger percentage of players reach that tilting point ensures that even after a certain amount of deaths the Kraken is still beatable.

And just for the sake of it, the actual values for the health of the boss are 140 base health points plus 83 per player, all of that per health bar (times 8 for the total). Another interesting effect to take into account is that grenade damage (and to a lesser extend, items) doesn’t carry over to the next health bar. That is, if the current health bar has 1/100 points and you use a grenade, the next health bar wont remain at 31/100, but at 100/100. So to ensure maximum efficiency grenades/items should be used just after a health bar is dropped so that no damage is lost.

Still, I did actually check everything on an outdated version, and after taking a look at the v5_2 in hammer I see that there are, in fact, two walls that could block bullets. One of them, probably the one you refer to, is permanently there. (The yellow thing is the Kraken hitbox, I made the wall white to make it easier to see) The other one only becomes solid during some of the Kraken’s attacks: (Again, used a dirty texture to clarify the shape of the thing)

Both of those things are used to launch the explosive zombie and, I imagine, the barrels, so I don’t believe they are intentional but rather a bug that should be mentioned to the mapper if he’s not yet aware.

I’m completely agree with everything you said, i didn’t mean to say you data is wrong (my english is kinda bad), i wanted to say that it’s wrong for our current version of the map, that means that it’s outdated because (i think) the mapper added some changes to thew boss fight.

Also thank you for following this discusión and giving us more objetive information of the map; i don’t really understand things related with mapping. I hope we can discuss more threads to be able to make the comunity more rich in knowledge

MO

Mojonero:

Still, I did actually check everything on an outdated version, and after taking a look at the v5_2 in hammer I see that there are, in fact, two walls that could block bullets. One of them, probably the one you refer to, is permanently there. (The yellow thing is the Kraken hitbox, I made the wall white to make it easier to see) The other one only becomes solid during some of the Kraken’s attacks: (Again, used a dirty texture to clarify the shape of the thing)

Both of those things are used to launch the explosive zombie and, I imagine, the barrels, so I don’t believe they are intentional but rather a bug that should be mentioned to the mapper if he’s not yet aware.

Neat. Some players were saying that there was HP changes towards the map. Snooping around I saw no changes when comparing previous versions through Entspy but did not check for brush changes by decompiling the map. Indeed you are right that this is an unintentional issue as it uses nodraw (Invisible) which should (but not always depending on thickness of the brush) stop all penetration period. This ramp spawns for every barrel and “explosive zombie” that is launched towards you and effectively blocking some bullets.

This reminds me of (and is similar to) the “shoot the shoulders” back in mako. The difference is that bahamut’s “model” is supposedly the hitbox (in css and some ports but not in v6 and even p8) but kraken still uses a func_physbox. All I have to say is a very nice find to a map I thought could be better for the worse (or worse for the better) and derp mapper.

One other thing to add is the hp is exactly the same from css meaning the boss may take longer to defeat because most weapons don’t penetrate the hitbox to hit it twice (unlike css). At least the boss is still beatable despite that.

A quick and dirty fix has been applied for the server to work around this. There is a solid brush that probably can block bullets but I’m not at all worried about it for how small it is. I’m not sure if said fix is good at all. I’m posting this to get players attention to perhaps play the map well at the end to know if that was the issue all along and from there they can notify the mapper himself.

Edit: Stripper config for server operators or for the curious. Seems to do the job well and players are managing to get their shots in.